# "Save for Later" Has No Later
Canonical: https://social-archive.org/hyungyunlim/x57P2OUngo
Original URL: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg
Author: Interface Studies
Platform: youtube
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## Content
Join "Interface Studies" to help make more videos. Your support keeps new content coming. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqv7gk4p_rB4nRz0j7B5yFA/join Almost every app today has a bookmark button. Almost none of them has a later. This video follows the save-for-later pattern from a 1983 study of office desks, through the browser's bookmarks bar and the hidden menu that outlived it, to the Watch Later lists we never open. -------------------------- Subscribe on Substack: https://interfacestudies.substack.com/ Happy to jump on a call if it'd be useful: design strategy, experience design, critique, feedback. https://intro.co/salehkayyali Elsewhere: X: https://x.com/mskayyali BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/mskayyali.com --------------------------- CHAPTERS [0:00] The ribbon and the promise [1:32] The desk: finding and reminding [2:20] The browser had both answers [4:32] The failure, measured [5:19] Cause one: nothing arrives [6:39] Cause two: the save already paid you [7:50] Cause three: the wanting decays [11:00] Why nothing gets fixed [12:27] Designing for later [16:05] A note on AI [16:46] The second job FURTHER READING: - How do people organize their desks? (1983): https://ia601504.us.archive.org/26/items/perm1_20220428_0403/Howdesks.pdf - Information Archiving with Bookmarks (1998): https://www.dgp.toronto.edu/public_user/RMB/papers/p23.pdf - Out of sight and out of mind: Bookmarks are created but not used (2021): https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/0961000620949652 - Highbrow Films Gather Dust (2009):https://www.hbs.edu/ris/Publication%20Files/07-099_00df6c8e-2b29-43ff-8c7a-55bfe3906726.pdf - Doing It Now or Later (1999): https://econweb.ucsd.edu/~jandreon/Econ264/papers/O'Donoghue%20Rabin%20AER%201999.pdf - Saving-Enhanced Memory (2015):https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/0956797614559285 - When Online Content Disappears (Pew Research, 2024): https://www.pewresearch.org/data-labs/2024/05/17/when-online-content-disappears/ - An Article Has A Lifespan Of 37 Days (Fast Company, 2013): https://www.fastcompany.com/3020946/an-article-has-a-lifespan-of-37-days-and-other-findings-from-pocket - My save to read it later habits (Medium, 2013; the Pocket figures): https://medium.com/@davidcafor/my-save-to-read-it-later-habits-dddaee4175f0 - New Gmail now generally available (Google, 2018; snooze): https://workspaceupdates.googleblog.com/2018/07/new-gmail-ga.html - Save it for Later (Slack help docs): https://slack.com/help/articles/13453851074067-Save-it-for-Later - New Feature: Reminders (Raindrop blog): https://blog.raindrop.io/new-feature-reminders-a2d260408b74/ — help doc: https://help.raindrop.io/reminders - Reviewing Your Highlights (Readwise docs): https://docs.readwise.io/readwise/docs/faqs/reviewing-highlights - mymind: https://mymind.com/ — Serendipity: https://mymind.helpscoutdocs.com/article/44-rediscovering-things-with-serendipity --- ## Transcript [0:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=0s) welcome to Interface Studies my name is Saleh [0:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=5s) most save for later [0:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=6s) buttons are stylised drawings of a ribbon [0:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=9s) look at the icons on X Instagram [0:13](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=13s) Reddit there's a small pennant [0:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=15s) with a notched tail [0:17](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=17s) now the real ribbon [0:19](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=19s) or the real bookmark lived inside the book [0:22](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=22s) it held the exact page where you stopped [0:25](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=25s) and it was there [0:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=26s) at the moment of return [0:29](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=29s) pick the book up [0:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=30s) and it's the first thing your thumb finds [0:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=33s) on the other hand that button in an interface kept the [0:37](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=37s) shape and dropped the properties [0:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=40s) tap it or click it [0:41](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=41s) and the thing you're saving gets filed somewhere [0:44](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=44s) out of sight waiting for a return [0:47](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=47s) the button does nothing to arrange [0:50](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=50s) I know this from my own watch [0:52](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=52s) later list on YouTube is just one example [0:55](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=55s) I stopped scrolling to the bottom of that list [0:58](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=58s) years ago [0:59](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=59s) every video in it was saved with a sincere intent [1:03](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=63s) but I rarely went back [1:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=66s) the button is now on almost every service we use [1:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=69s) and the same list sits behind it [1:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=72s) whether the service is a social platform [1:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=74s) or a paid bookmarking app [1:16](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=76s) all of them work on this pattern [1:19](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=79s) a button and a list somewhere [1:22](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=82s) and it's always about this later part [1:25](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=85s) this video is about it [1:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=87s) we save constantly and return rarely [1:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=90s) and I want to work out why [1:32](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=92s) now to understand that let's start [1:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=94s) with 1983 a paper that I mentioned in a previous video [1:38](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=98s) stuck with me Thomas Malone [1:41](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=101s) interviewed office workers [1:42](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=102s) about the state of their desks [1:44](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=104s) and the study how do people [1:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=106s) organize their desks found that a desk does two jobs [1:51](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=111s) one is finding [1:53](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=113s) you file a document so you can locate it again [1:57](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=117s) the other is reminding a pile of paper sits on the desk [2:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=121s) and its sheer presence [2:03](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=123s) tells you it still needs dealing with [2:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=126s) Malone warned that electronic systems [2:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=129s) built to support finding while neglecting reminding [2:13](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=133s) would undermine their own usefulness [2:16](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=136s) he wrote that before the web existed [2:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=140s) the web's first feature took the warning half-seriously [2:24](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=144s) Netscape shipped a bookmarks menu in 1994 [2:28](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=148s) a hidden list it's Malone's filing cabinet [2:32](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=152s) but within a few years [2:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=154s) the browser grew the other half too [2:36](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=156s) Netscape 4 added the personal toolbar in 1997 [2:41](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=161s) Internet Explorer added its links bar [2:44](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=164s) around the same time suddenly [2:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=166s) the same window held both of Malone's surfaces at once [2:50](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=170s) the bar is the pile on the desk [2:53](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=173s) a handful of links permanently visible [2:56](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=176s) their presence doing the nagging [2:59](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=179s) the menu is the cabinet unbounded and out of sight [3:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=184s) but that bar that we see in browsers has a cost [3:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=188s) there's a very limited number of bookmarks [3:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=190s) that can be displayed all the time [3:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=192s) in our web browser's interface [3:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=194s) and the case is harder on mobile [3:17](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=197s) presence is rationed by pixels and saving compounds [3:22](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=202s) a 1998 study of over 300 bookmark users [3:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=206s) information archiving with bookmarks [3:28](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=208s) found collections growing steadily [3:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=211s) while the organizing never kept up [3:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=214s) so the bar overflows [3:36](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=216s) and what was done to handle this problem [3:38](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=218s) was relatively simple [3:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=220s) a small Chevron at the end of the bar [3:43](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=223s) that opens a hidden list you can access the full list [3:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=226s) of course but that is hidden behind the browser's menus [3:51](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=231s) the overflow control [3:52](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=232s) for the visible pile is the invisible pile again [3:56](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=236s) presence does not scale [3:59](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=239s) when the platforms arrived [4:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=241s) and needed a save pattern to copy [4:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=244s) both designs were sitting there in the browser [4:07](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=247s) and they took the menu Watch Later saved posts [4:11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=251s) favorites bookmarks [4:13](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=253s) every one of them is the unbounded hidden list [4:16](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=256s) and it was even shipped without the bar [4:18](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=258s) that we see in browsers it was out of sight [4:22](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=262s) and out of sight was never an accident [4:24](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=264s) of the save button it was one of two available designs [4:28](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=268s) and it is the one everybody chose [4:32](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=272s) that hidden list to access things that we saved [4:35](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=275s) fails in a measurable way [4:38](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=278s) in 2021 [4:39](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=279s) Ofer Bergman and his colleagues published a study [4:42](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=282s) whose title does half of the work for me [4:44](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=284s) out of sight and out of mind [4:47](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=287s) bookmarks are created but not used [4:50](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=290s) they asked 50 people to retrieve pages [4:53](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=293s) they'd personally bookmarked [4:55](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=295s) and watched how they did it [4:57](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=297s) people get back to pages by other routes [5:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=300s) and the bookmarks themselves just sit there [5:03](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=303s) now we don't know much about the numbers [5:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=305s) because nobody publishes them [5:07](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=307s) we have some signals [5:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=308s) from specialized apps that we will go through later [5:11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=311s) but the question is what exactly stops the return [5:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=315s) the evidence seems to point at three things [5:19](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=319s) the first cause is forgetting [5:21](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=321s) and it is the solved one [5:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=323s) a saved item has no presence [5:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=326s) so nothing brings it back to mind [5:29](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=329s) interestingly [5:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=330s) paper offices solved this for most of a century [5:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=333s) with the tickler file a drawer [5:36](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=336s) of 43 folders one for each day of the month [5:39](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=339s) and one for each month of the year [5:42](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=342s) drop a document in the folder for the 9th [5:44](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=344s) and on the morning of the 9th [5:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=346s) it lands on your desk in software [5:50](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=350s) email solved it [5:52](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=352s) Gmail added [5:53](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=353s) snooze in 2018 after it was introduced in a brief [5:56](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=356s) experimental app called inbox [5:59](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=359s) dismiss a message name a time [6:02](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=362s) and at that time [6:03](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=363s) it returns to your inbox as though newly arrived [6:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=368s) Slack went further in March 2023 [6:11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=371s) and merged saved items with reminders [6:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=374s) into a feature named of all things later it is where [6:18](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=378s) a save has states and can carry a return time [6:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=383s) now when it comes to email [6:24](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=384s) what makes it particularly useful [6:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=387s) is that it has something most software lacks [6:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=390s) an arrival surface [6:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=391s) and a habit attached to it it is a place where things land [6:35](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=395s) and where your attention already goes every day [6:39](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=399s) the second cause is quieter [6:42](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=402s) in 2015 [6:43](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=403s) Benjamin Storm and Sean Stone ran a set of experiments [6:47](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=407s) exploring the saving enhanced memory effect [6:50](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=410s) which is a cognitive phenomenon [6:51](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=411s) where saving information digitally or physically [6:55](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=415s) improves your ability to learn and remember [6:57](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=417s) new information [6:59](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=419s) in their paper [7:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=420s) people studied a list of words in a computer file [7:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=424s) some could save the file before studying a second list [7:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=428s) and the people who saved [7:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=430s) remembered the new material better [7:13](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=433s) saving the first list let their minds release it [7:17](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=437s) the effect vanished though [7:18](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=438s) when the saving seemed unreliable [7:22](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=442s) your mind only lets go of what it trusts the system [7:25](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=445s) to hold [7:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=447s) that's a lab result about word lists [7:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=450s) so let's carry it as a mechanism [7:32](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=452s) rather than a measurement [7:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=453s) but the mechanism itself explains something real [7:37](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=457s) part of the reason you never go back to your [7:39](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=459s) saved items list is that [7:42](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=462s) the save closed the loop at the moment of capture [7:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=466s) that itch was scratched [7:47](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=467s) the moment you pressed that button [7:50](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=470s) the third cause is the one worth the deepest look [7:52](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=472s) because no reminder can beat it [7:54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=474s) and most saves die of it [7:58](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=478s) the cleanest evidence comes from a system [8:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=480s) where forgetting was nearly impossible [8:03](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=483s) DVDs by mail [8:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=485s) now before streaming [8:07](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=487s) this is how Netflix and services like it worked [8:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=490s) you kept a [8:11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=491s) ranked wishlist of movies [8:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=492s) the company posted you the disc at the top [8:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=495s) and returning it summoned the next one [8:18](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=498s) the system remembered for you and delivered for you [8:21](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=501s) and the disc [8:22](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=502s) then sat in your house until you dealt with it [8:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=506s) it's Malone's reminding pile [8:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=507s) but it's rebuilt by a DVD company [8:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=510s) in 2009 Katherine Milkman and her colleagues [8:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=514s) got hold of the rental records of [8:36](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=516s) one of these services [8:38](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=518s) and they measured how long people kept each disc [8:41](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=521s) the films people simply wanted to watch [8:44](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=524s) came and went quickly [8:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=526s) the films they felt they must watch or ought to watch [8:50](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=530s) like the documentaries and the serious dramas [8:53](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=533s) sat for longer unwatched nobody had forgotten anything [8:57](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=537s) the disc was right there what had faded was the wanting [9:03](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=543s) it was somewhere between the day they queued the film [9:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=545s) and the day it hit the doormat [9:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=548s) the study is called Highbrow Films Gather Dust [9:13](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=553s) economists have a name for this present bias [9:17](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=557s) that disproportionate weight [9:19](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=559s) we give to whatever is immediate [9:22](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=562s) in doing it now or later [9:24](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=564s) which is a 1999 paper by Ted O'donoghue [9:28](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=568s) and Matthew Rabin formalized it [9:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=570s) and it means that every save is a plan [9:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=573s) made by your present self for a future one [9:36](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=576s) who will probably not agree to it [9:39](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=579s) and that decay in interest is Fast. Pocket [9:42](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=582s) which was an app for saving for later [9:45](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=585s) its internal data [9:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=586s) put the active life of and even successful [9:49](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=589s) long form article at about 37 days [9:52](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=592s) with most saves cooling quicker [9:55](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=595s) the read later founders knew this [9:58](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=598s) when they were asked in 2013 [10:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=600s) about the fraction of pocket saves that got read [10:03](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=603s) they offered 10 to 70% averaging about 50 [10:07](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=607s) another unexpected [10:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=609s) thing that finished this argument for me [10:11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=611s) was the fact that saved objects decay as well [10:16](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=616s) Pew Research measured what they call digital decay [10:19](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=619s) in 2024 and they found that 38% of web [10:24](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=624s) pages that existed in 2013 were gone [10:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=627s) a decade later [10:29](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=629s) a quarter of all pages from the decade had vanished [10:32](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=632s) even pages from 2021 were dead within two years [10:36](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=636s) at a rate of roughly one to five [10:39](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=639s) the pile seems to rot from both ends [10:42](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=642s) your interest has a half life measured in weeks [10:45](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=645s) and the page itself [10:47](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=647s) has meaningful odds of dying before you're back [10:50](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=650s) every saved link is a race between two decays [10:54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=654s) and a reminder doesn't stop either [10:57](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=657s) it can only arrive before they finish [11:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=660s) all of this leaves the question of why [11:03](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=663s) the solved cause stayed unsolved on every platform [11:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=668s) as I said earlier [11:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=670s) platforms don't publish their save-to-return figures [11:13](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=673s) but there's something that we can see [11:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=675s) in the deployment of these features [11:17](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=677s) it seems that at the moment of capture [11:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=680s) a save is one of the strongest signals you can send [11:24](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=684s) it tells the recommendation system what you value [11:28](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=688s) and it deepens your investment in the account [11:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=691s) holding the list [11:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=693s) that value is banked the instant you press [11:36](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=696s) the return produces nothing [11:38](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=698s) the platform wasn't already collecting [11:41](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=701s) and in their interest [11:42](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=702s) it's better to show newer content than an old one [11:45](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=705s) an active reminder would cost something real as well [11:49](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=709s) it's a slot in the feed or even a notification [11:53](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=713s) and each is priced against the recommendation or worse [11:57](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=717s) an ad [11:58](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=718s) notifications themselves are a challenge [12:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=720s) as we saw in the previous video [12:02](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=722s) and you cannot just send notifications on everything [12:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=725s) on the other hand we see some [12:07](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=727s) thoughtfulness [12:07](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=727s) in the way that Slack built its later feature [12:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=730s) the feature that I spoke about earlier [12:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=732s) because Slack sells completed work [12:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=735s) a returning message getting handled [12:17](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=737s) is the product doing its job [12:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=740s) YouTube sells you watch time [12:22](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=742s) and the feed already supplies it [12:24](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=744s) without honoring old promises [12:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=747s) now this does not mean that designing [12:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=750s) for later is an impossible task [12:32](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=752s) and if we suppose that we're building a save feature [12:35](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=755s) and we want later to mean something [12:37](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=757s) it seems that we have good examples [12:39](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=759s) from paid bookmarking apps [12:41](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=761s) especially the modern ones [12:43](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=763s) they are scattered and everywhere [12:45](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=765s) and no single tool holds them all [12:47](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=767s) but at least they exist [12:49](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=769s) so how can we do this [12:51](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=771s) the first one is resurfacing early [12:53](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=773s) because decay sets the clock [12:56](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=776s) a reminder after a week [12:58](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=778s) can still catch the motive that produced the save [13:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=781s) but if it was four or five weeks later [13:03](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=783s) it arrives addressed to someone else [13:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=785s) Raindrop [13:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=786s) which is a bookmark manager funded by subscriptions [13:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=789s) sells exactly this as a paid feature [13:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=792s) pick a bookmark and a time [13:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=794s) and it comes back as an email or a notification [13:17](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=797s) it would be interesting if this was automated [13:19](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=799s) but at least within Reindrop you have the option [13:23](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=803s) the second one is bounding the arrivals [13:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=806s) because the bookmark bar already taught us that [13:28](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=808s) presence doesn't scale [13:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=810s) Readwise which is another subscription tool [13:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=813s) sends a daily review of your saved highlights [13:37](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=817s) a few items a day never the pile [13:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=820s) the daily budget matters [13:41](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=821s) more than the algorithm behind it [13:43](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=823s) and the budget must carry no debt [13:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=826s) an item ignored today should just reschedule [13:49](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=829s) silently show people their saves as a liability [13:53](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=833s) and you've built a guilt pile with a counter on it [13:56](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=836s) Number three is letting items retire [13:59](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=839s) because the save already paid [14:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=840s) at the moment [14:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=841s) we press. a save resurfaced twice without action [14:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=845s) should archive itself [14:07](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=847s) and the interface should frame that as completion [14:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=850s) mymind a bookmarking tool with no free tier [14:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=854s) ships this as Serendipity [14:16](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=856s) which is a feature that lives inside the app [14:18](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=858s) a short session of about 20 saves resurfaced at random [14:22](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=862s) each met with one of two actions keep or forget [14:28](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=868s) this session is bounded so it never becomes work [14:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=871s) the selection is random so there's no debt [14:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=874s) forgetting is a first class action here [14:38](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=878s) the one thing serendipity [14:39](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=879s) what doesn't do is arrive [14:41](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=881s) you have to open it [14:43](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=883s) it might make an occasional appearance [14:45](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=885s) in their regular marketing communication [14:49](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=889s) finally the hard one [14:51](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=891s) finding an arrival surface [14:53](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=893s) because the forgetting half itself [14:55](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=895s) is only solved when something lands [14:58](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=898s) for a standalone tool [15:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=900s) it seems very difficult to find another surface [15:03](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=903s) other than email [15:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=904s) which is why the Readwise review and Raindrop reminder [15:07](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=907s) both arrive there [15:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=909s) that is not to say that email [15:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=910s) doesn't come with its problems [15:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=912s) because a lot of things compete [15:13](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=913s) for our attention in email [15:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=915s) but it is the most stable one we have [15:18](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=918s) and even for some of the modern [15:19](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=919s) standalone bookmarking services [15:21](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=921s) they are now developing what can be only called a feed [15:24](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=924s) and that takes us to the second point [15:26](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=926s) for a platform like X, BlueSky, Instagram, TikTok [15:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=931s) the only honest surface is the feed itself [15:35](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=935s) there a resurfaced save [15:38](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=938s) competes with everything the feed would rather show you [15:41](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=941s) and from what we have seen so far [15:43](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=943s) the algorithm only prefers new things [15:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=946s) my hunch is that a resurfaced save [15:49](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=949s) could pay for its slot [15:51](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=951s) since the content that we resurface [15:53](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=953s) there [15:53](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=953s) is something that has been declared [15:55](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=955s) as valuable to the user [15:57](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=957s) the platform's behavior now says that they disagree [16:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=960s) part of the answer as I said earlier [16:02](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=962s) is probably because they only care about the signal [16:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=965s) also note [16:06](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=966s) that none of what I spoke about so far involves AI [16:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=969s) because I think this is not an intelligence problem [16:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=972s) what we see now [16:13](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=973s) even in modern tools is using AI to summarize links [16:17](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=977s) but a model that summarizes your saved link [16:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=980s) answers a question and most saves were never a question [16:24](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=984s) summarizing might spoil the article even [16:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=987s) what the return needs is a surface to land on [16:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=990s) and a reason to build that surface [16:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=993s) no model supplies either [16:36](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=996s) it would be interesting if certain machine [16:37](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=997s) learning algorithms were used in the feed [16:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=1000s) to combine all the previous best practices [16:43](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=1003s) and deliver bookmark items regularly [16:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=1006s) at the end of all this [16:47](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=1007s) and by all the evidence that we went through [16:50](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=1010s) most of those saves that we do on all platforms [16:54](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=1014s) had served their purpose in the moment they were made [16:57](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=1017s) and the rest were racing decays [16:59](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=1019s) they were always going to lose [17:02](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=1022s) fixing the return stays [17:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=1024s) open [17:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=1025s) some of the ideas for it are old [17:07](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=1027s) it works on paper it works in email [17:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=1030s) when it comes to platforms [17:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=1032s) they come and go [17:13](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=1033s) what matters is a surface [17:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=1035s) that lets the bookmarking button [17:17](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=1037s) earn its place [17:18](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=1038s) the same way the physical bookmarking ribbon [17:21](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frjyb4_4Rlg&t=1041s) earned its place in the book